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[0:00:45] Glycogen levels and fat loss
[0:05:30] Loading for powerlifting vs. WOD’s, weight manipulation for different goals
[0:17:48] Progenex Force, carb loading, fasting after training, carb sources
[0:31:16] Energy requirements, protecting your muscle with your body fat
[0:34:48] Body fat scans vs. calipers, skinny fat or obese
[0:45:28] Loading Vitargo, cheese, gaining weight to decrease your body fat percentage
[0:54:15] Gradual body recomposition, maintaining muscle
Paul: This is Paul Nobles from Eat To Perform.com. I am here in the extreme fat loss class, which is reserved for the people that are trying to lose an extreme amount of fat. It’s not for some (as an example) that’s 18% and trying to get to 14%.
We’ll just go ahead and dive in. We only have three people in the class today, so it could be kind of interesting.
Glycogen levels and fat loss
[0:00:45] Paul: “When my glycogen levels are full, my weight is around 340, and when they’re depleted, my weight is around 330. Which end of the spectrum is better for optimum fat loss? Kiefer (CBL) seems to be biased towards the low end and gives you just enough carbs not to be totally depleted. What is your view on this?”
Well, Kiefer’s CBL…I don’t know if you actually meant to say CNS there, ‘cause actually CNS is more biased towards the 330 lb. end…I think the idea of what Kiefer’s trying to do with CBL is actually pretty close to what you’re describing where you’ve got full glycogen levels for maximum performance. I think the thing that kind of gets a little lost in the CBL discussions is that they don’t work out all that much; they only work out 3-4 days a week. There are these really aggressive highs and these really aggressive lows. It’s sort of the opposite of what we’re doing.
In terms of what I believe, it really sort of depends on what your goals on. In this case, we’re talking about fat loss, so I think there should be times where you’ll be pretty aggressive at 330. You kinda wanna get that 330 number down to 328 and then your top-end range would be 345. Then you sort of play with those numbers.
When I deadlift as an example, I do something similar to what you’re describing. So last night, as an example, I had pizza going into my big deadlift day. I was somewhere in the neighborhood of about 174 lbs. the previous day, and when I went into my deadlift day today, I was 176.4. I was feeling pretty good; no real big problems or anything like that. But since I knew that I was going to try to lift pretty heavy, I went ahead and actually loaded before my workout. That is actually one of the major adjustments that I’ve made that has allowed for a lot more progress as of late.
When Mike came along and we started talking about what was optimal, he mentioned a lot of pre-workout type stuff. I was still sort of in the mindset of, “Well yeah, but that sort of hurts your fat loss abilities…” If you can work out fasted, as an example, you know…There’s a lot of opinions on whether or not you can still function really well. I’m starting to really lean towards believing that you cannot. I’m just seeing really extreme gains loading around my workouts in the way that Mike talks about.
My dinner that I just ate was fibrous vegetables with fats…Chicken, bacon, sunflower seeds…Pretty much the exact opposite of what Kiefer would tell everybody to do, but I’d already loaded earlier in the morning, so there was really no reason to be like, “Super glycogen!” at this point.
Loading for powerlifting vs. WOD’s, weight manipulation for different goals
[0:05:30] Paul: So I think that was a little bit of an answer to your question. You want to really super-aggressively load around when your heavy weight training is. It brings us to the point of…”How you would load around your CrossFit workouts?”
As an example, I was 176.4…Probably pretty topped out. The extremes are consistent with what I know to be true. I could get to 168 probably in 2-3 days. So that’s almost how I would suggest that you do it…You aggressively load. I don’t totally know how your workout schedule goes, but if you’re lifting super heavy and then you have a CrossFit WOD or HIIT session or something of that nature…For example, either tomorrow or Wednesday, I’ll do a HIIT because I’m starting to prioritize once trying to increase my VO2 max. I’m not so much concerned about weight (I’m not trying to get fat either) but I wanna make sure that athletically I’m progressing.
I’m more concerned with lifting really heavy when that opportunity presents itself. I’m less concerned with my CF workouts; I consider my CF workouts my cardio workouts. Does that mean that I’m nailing it in on my CF workouts? No. I’ve some pretty good CF workouts recently. The fact that I’m lifting so much heavier makes everything a lot easier at this point. I think that ends up being a real plus.
But getting back to HIIT or CrossFit at this point, now all of a sudden you start to go, “OK, well…I aggressively loaded around my workouts…” You can do it Kiefer’s way with CBL…I can tell you this straight up; it’s a noticeable difference doing things the way that Mike describes it compared to the way that Kiefer described it. I can tell you that that whole plan of keeping in your fats and proteins…That may be great for…I just don’t believe that that’s gonna be super optimal for most people.
My perspective on that has changed a little bit, because what you’re describing is almost the optimal scenario. If you could be a 347 lb. man, lift super heavy, and then allow your carb-depleted self to get through a couple bad workouts that are a little hard from a cardio perspective, then that kind of allows for what I was talking about. Now you’re not at 330 anymore; you’re at 328. You gradually move things down.
Is that making sense? Is that consistent with what you know to be true? Is that something that could work for you? ‘Cause I know you’re pretty diligent about coming to these classes. I’d like to see you progressing.
“So should I go to the low 330s and load heavier before heavy workouts?”
Paul: That’s exactly what I would do; I would get pretty aggressive. I think that until you start really tapping into that low-end a little bit more, you’re really not going to see the fat loss like you would want to. Then you come back up, you load up the water in your muscles, you allow for more aggressive strength training/work capacity gains, and then you kind of go from there.
Does that make sense? Does that seem reasonable?
I can tell you right now, I’m still sort of figuring that out myself. I can also tell you that something you can probably relate to in a big way…Is that you don’t want to do it. It feels so good being strong! The one day that I regret, that I can’t even fathom thinking about, is that HIIT training day. That is really, really hard. If it’s not hard, you’re not doing it right. It’s literally all-out. Down the road, I think that’s going to be favorable as it relates to better VO2 max/better cardio and getting used to this more athletic build.
“It sounds like I should be low carb for a week or so to get down to the low 330s and then resume my previous CBL schedule.”
I’m not finding the CBL thing to be optimal. I’m being real truthful with you about that. I’m having a lot of success lifting a lot of weight loading around my workouts. I’ve talked a lot about what I like about CBL; I think it could work as an example if I were to load…
“My bad. I’m not referring to Kiefer’s CBL.”
Paul: I don’t know what CBL is then.
“I’ve been calling your version CBL.”
Paul: Yeah, that’s fine, but really what we teach is Met Flex. You need to get the scale moving. You need to get down to a reasonable weight, so there’s gonna be some level of figuring out what works best. Do I think that you should be at 330? I think that you should be at 330 occasionally, but not all the time.
“That makes sense, ‘cause I was having a hard time losing fat with my glycogen levels topped off as they are now.”
Paul: I don’t think you can really say that; I think that it does tend to be favorable for muscle building. My guess is that it’s not a huge issue for you, but muscle maintenance tends to be an issue for people losing weight. I think that, in your example, that there are some extremes that need to happen that allow for some level of restriction.
Part of the problem with control days, for example…Let’s say you work out, then you have a control day, and then the following day is your rest day…Your big gain that you’re going to get is going into that rest day. In theory, you’re gonna be carbing up for the day’s next WOD.
Did you see Mike’s video on Met Flex? I think that if I was in your shoes, I would give that as good a try as you can. Just load pretty aggressively around your workouts…Maybe like 200g…Something that allows for a good load, doesn’t really screw up your metabolism all that much. Have one or two days where you’re eating for joy a little bit more and kind of go from there.
Today, I loaded 70g of Vitargo before workout; I had planned to load after my workout but I was feeling a little dizzy in the head from lifting so heavy. It just didn’t feel right eating more. I ended up having a couple bunless hamburgers, some dark chocolate peanut butter cups…But nothing too extreme. I didn’t feel in the mood for vegetables by the way.
I hope that answers your question.
Let me get to Janis. She was asking about “Force.”
“You were talking about Force. Would you recommend it for someone with a fair amount of fat to lose?”
Paul: 100%. Force is 100% the supplement you wanna look at because there’s no real calories in it.
Just to finish up the conversation with Cory, really take a look at the video from Mike. I think that it’ll make a really big difference for you. I find it so easy to load around the workouts, it allows for a lot more flexibility. It allows for a little bit more…Later on, I can do a smoothie or something but I don’t feel the need to go to extremes, no huge loading or things like that. My progress lately has been off the charts.
Progenex Force, carb loading, fasting after training, carb sources
[0:17:48] Paul: In terms of Force, 1) it tastes amazing. Beta alanine is sort of an endurance sport supplement. There gets to be build up within your muscles that makes it harder to work out as you’re going. It sort of clears some of that, so as you’re going through your workout it works a little bit better. I think there’s some caffeine…That kind of gets you going a bit, and then creatine…None of them are in extremes, so that would be the argument for doing your own (if you knew what you were doing.)
You can sort of overdose on beta alanine, and a lot of people do that…then they feel a sort of tingling on their skin and that’s when they’ve gone too far.
I would also say that, for someone with a fair amount of fat to lose, one of the things that you want to consider is getting pretty aggressive with your loads around your workouts because you get a more efficient load more easily. For a lot of people in your situation, there’s going to be a fair amount of calories that you’re going to want to intake. So a lot of people say, “Well, I’m having a difficult time loading 200 calories between 5:00 and 9:00.” This road allows you to get past that.
If you work out really early, as an example, you might wanna do it fasted and then have a post-workout. I’ve planned to do 70 before, 70 after…I just haven’t had the will to do that. I feel like I get enough from the beginning. Like I said, I’d had a pizza the night before so I already had some topped off glycogen…I probably pushed it to the limits with my pre-workout. It wasn’t a huge workout or anything, I just basically did 20 lifts. It was really more of a mental/CNS kinda thing.
Paul: Maureen, have you come up with any new questions? I know this is one of your first times and we’re probably talking about some pretty advanced stuff at this point.
So she’s saying…
Since she’s new to this, she does a 5 a.m. workout…So pretty much you wanna get your carbohydrates the night before.
“Is the basic concept that I always wanna up carbs the night before and decrease carbs and focus on fats and protein when not working out?”
Paul: It sort of depends on your situation. Can you give me some basic stats? That’ll give me…Your height, weight, approximate body fat percentage if you have any idea at all.
There is an argument for fasting occasionally after your workouts in the morning, but I’m getting to the point now where I feel like that is very occasionally…Like maybe once a week, maybe twice a week. It just doesn’t seem too super-favorable as it relates to maintaining muscle mass and allowing for maximum work capacity.
The big driver here, Maureen…’cause I think a lot of people come in and they get really super focused on control days, or trying to lose weight, or trying to maintain the same weight that they’re at now. The big problem with that is that you’re not really seeing the magic. The magic comes when work capacity increases. Well, how does work capacity increase?
Work capacity increases by the carb load the night before, and then the carb load afterwards. If you can load your carbs pretty efficiently…We typically recommend Vitargo, but it somewhat depends on your situation. As someone in the class, you might want to be using something like sweet potatoes for breakfast (as an example). It might not load as efficiently as a carb supplement…
Okay, so she’s saying she’s 5’4”, 198, 34% body fat, “I haven’t been tested…Maybe lower.” She’s lost 25 lbs. since January but the scale hasn’t moved in two weeks.
First of all, 34% is sort of this borderline percentage…We have a couple people that are in this situation, and to a certain extent…You definitely wanna get a real body fat test because sometimes a Tanita scale might tell you 34%, and then the BOD POD might tell you 39%…Or it might tell you 28%. A lot of it depends on hydration levels and things of this nature…It tends to be off pretty dramatically one way or the other.
Judging from what I’ve seen and what I know to be true, I think that you’re probably better off with whole foods at this point from a muscle-maintenance standpoint.
She says she does CF 3-4x a week…So I think that the goal for you is to try and get some kind of load the night before, and then some type of load post-workout. It doesn’t have to be immediate. You don’t have to drink it, as an example. If you find drinking it is convenient, that’s fine; my only concern would be if it would be something that might be concerning for you. For instance, I use Vitargo with protein. You’re probably better off with having a protein and a carb, and then moving to fats and proteins for lunch…Fats and proteins for dinner.
So…What Mike’s going to describe is probably your best-case scenario, but one of the things that I’d like to see you do…Like for instance, what we’re talking about right here…You’re gonna load let’s say 100g of carbohydrate. You’re gonna work out at 6 a.m. and then you probably have a meal…Let’s say also with somewhere in the neighborhood of 100g of carbohydrate.
In theory, you loaded 200g of carbohydrate around your workout. That should allow for adequate performance, adequate recovery, and then you go to mostly fats and proteins similar to what Mike will describe in the video. Let’s say that you work out the next day…You’re going to want to figure out a little bit by judging the scale…If maybe you could dial it in a little bit.
One of the things that happens with people that happens right off the bat (and we talked a little bit with Cory) is that when you’re topped off with glycogen, your weight obviously goes up. You feel a little watery. Right now, I’m not feeling super tight, but you can deal with that really easily by just taking a day or two and doing what I described with Cory. The nice thing for me is that I have the ability to lift slow occasionally and then come back and have some level of cardio or hill sprints or something of that nature.
The thing about Eat To Perform that sort of gets lost is…Yes, we’d like to see you eat. Yes we’d like to see you eat close to the number on the calculator…At least get in the ballpark, right? But there is no rule against eating less occasionally. That’s sort of what I was talking about with Cory a little bit. On some of the days where you’re doing predominately cardio or predominately CrossFit, those are going to be the days that you tend to be a little bit more aggressive. Those are going to deplete your glycogen a little bit more. For instance, doing my deadlift sets today…Not a huge glycogen-depleting type of things.
But when you weigh a little bit more, when your muscles are full, those are all things that are favorable as it relates to adaptation and as it relates to performing at your best form a strength standpoint. I might not have wanted to run a marathon in that state. What I would suggest to you though is that you should watch Mike’s video…I think that is a really informative video, and it allows you to understand very well kind of the basic protocol.
Energy requirements, protecting your muscle with your body fat
[0:31:16] Paul: Maureen’s saying, “Until I achieve consistency, is moderate activity for the ETP calculator okay?”
Paul: In fact, I think that you do the moderate activity because in the beginning, I don’t think that we really know what your body fat is. You say it’s 34%, but until you’re tested in a lab, you really don’t have a hard, concrete number. Once we have that hard, concrete number, we can start to work towards what the goals are.
A big part of what we’re doing here, Maureen, is allowing you to protect your muscle that you’re trying to earn during your workouts. Now, one thing that this class has that’s a huge advantage over a lot of the other people (even though you guys probably don’t see it this way) is that your fat layer actually acts as a protective measure for your muscle, so you’re not at near as much risk as the rest of the class in terms of losing muscle.
If you’re a woman at 18%, you’ve gotta load glycogen much more aggressively. Maureen, I think you can pretty comfortably work at moderate activity. I think that given the stats that you said to me, you’d be fine at moderate activity…If you wanted to go -10% for a little bit. There’s probably going to be some level of weight gain.
If you think of it like this: Say there’s a workout…I like this workout…this is a workout I think that I can do well…That’s the one that you wanna load aggressively around. Another workout that you think…”That’s not going to be quite in my wheelhouse.” You might wanna use that as a glycogen depleting type of thing, maybe eat a little bit less on those days.
I think, in the end, you have to figure out…One of the things we talk about Maureen is trying to lose a pound a week. At a pound a week, you’re not being super super aggressive, but you wanna stay and make sure that you’re seeing that consistent progress. It’s okay for the scale to go up occasionally. I think you’re probably actually going to the scale go up a little bit. That’s sort of what happens for newer people, especially for people that’ve lost a lot of weight and are kind of coming from a little bit of a restricted background. Just remember, that until you can get your work capacity super high, you’ve gotta moderate your food. You’ve gotta eat a little bit less. So having moderate activity as your activity level in the beginning ends up being a positive for a lot of the new folks.
Body fat scans vs. calipers, skinny fat or obese
[0:34:48] Paul: “For body fat testing, if I can’t find scan tests, are caliper measures sufficient?”
They really aren’t sufficient. Pretty much everyone says what you just said Maureen. The reason that they say it is that it’s kind of inconvenient. It’s not easy; it’s not fun. You’re basically going to be in compression pants and a sports bra in front of a stranger…So nobody’s dying to do it. But I think it’s of severe value. Most of the people in the group think it’s of severe value. I don’t think you will really, truly know until you do it that way. Does that mean that you can’t have progress? No. You can definitely figure out a way to do it, but in terms of BOD POD…You can see those at most universities. You’ll be fine there. DXA Scan…Most clinics have them. If you ask them for BMI testing through DXA, typically it’s a little bit cheaper than if they were gonna try and get you for bone density…Sometimes it’s covered by insurance. It depends on your plan, and things of that nature.
But what I would suggest to you is that you make the leap. It’s a pain in the butt…I do it every three months. I think it’s of extreme value. When I make major changes, I actually do it more than that. As an example, I’ll probably be doing one here on June 1st…I’m actually in the process of putting on a little muscle so I wanna make sure I’ve got things headed in the right direction without adding too much fat.
I hope that helps. You know…can you do it without? I think you can do it without, but you’re going to see a lot of talk in the private group about body fat testing.
“That’s exactly what they said. I called and they say DXA scans are only for bone density.”
Paul: Yeah, I ran into that…It really is amazing to me how health professionals sometimes just default to lazy. Oftentimes you just end up talking to the wrong person. I have two clinics near me; one understands the BMI thing and the other one doesn’t…And it’s like talking to an alien. I wish I could help you navigate that a little bit, but there’s a setting on the DXA scan for BMI. It’ll give you a BMI test. But a lot of times, if you talk to someone who doesn’t have a whole lot of incentive to help you with your health, oftentimes you don’t get a good result.
You might have better luck with BOD POD through a local university…If you have to go caliper, I’m telling you, it’s not very good…But the more points the better. I think there should always be some level of checking. I think that one thing with caliper is that a lot of people do wrong is that they have their own calipers, so they check it all the time. I think it’s better off if it’s checked occasionally by someone else who does it fairly well. But even in that instance…They can aggressively pinch one day, and not aggressively pinch the next day. It’s a very subjective test. They all have room for error, but calipers have more room for error.
I think that pretty much covers it…She says she’ll keep trying. I’ll tell you this Maureen; it was like that for me. It was really hard in the beginning. You’re not super motivated to do it, because in general, it’s a little humbling but I think it’s of value.
Paul: Jana is saying, “Feel free to tell Maureen I had a BOD POD this weekend. It was 40%; calipers the same day and it was 29% so go with the better test.”
Paul: So what Jana is saying is that she was getting a caliper reading at 29% and then the BOD POD showed her at 40%. Now, there’re some interesting things about 40%. You can sort of see pictures of people, and you can sort of see that Jana, as an example, is not obese. Jana probably fits the profile of more of the other end of the extreme fat loss where skinny fat is more the issue. In Jana’s instance, I think it’s probably a little bit different form you…Maureen, I’m just making this judgment based on the stats that you’ve given me…based on what I’ve seen…But from Jana’s perspective, I think it’s really more muscle maintenance that’s becoming the issue and so for her, I think that there’s some level of muscle maintenance that would work better and would probably get her a lot closer. I think Jana should probably explore some level of loading around her workouts.
Jana, would you mind just giving me your stats so I can kinda run through that? I don’t wanna give you some advice that would be wrong, but I think that judging from your pictures, that’s gonna be pretty dead on.
Jana’s tall…Just for people that are watching on the video…If you look at, as an example Jana, Maureen’s stats compared to yours…You’re taller. So there’s going to be some level of muscle maintenance that’s going to make a big difference for you. Let’s say that for instance our goal for you was to lose 7 lbs. of fat.
She says that she lifts pretty heavy. I’m gonna tell you Jana, the secret for you 100% is going to be some level of loading around your workouts. I could be wrong (it happens occasionally) but something like Vitargo around your workouts. I know you were just asking about force. If you were asking me about Force, that kinda tells me the general idea of where your brain’s at. You don’t need force; I think what you need is Vitargo. You need more loading. So if you wanted to dissect the advice I gave Maureen compared to the advice I gave to you, what you want to do, is you want to gradually move to about 7 lbs. less over the period of about six months, and then aggressively load around your workouts.
I know that you started to move to right around 200g of carbohydrates…If you could load half of that around your workouts, I’m telling you your workouts would explode. If you’re already lifting heavy, that’s going to be favorable as it relates to muscle maintenance. The key there is going to be loading just enough to maintain that muscle, but not so aggressively where you’re sort of moving into the upper range. It would be okay to move up 3-4 lbs. occasionally as long as there’s a consistent trend for the low end.
What you’re feeling on what that I’m saying…Does that sound like something that makes sense to you? I think what happens a lot of the time is, people get these BOD POD readings and they think, “Oh my goodness. I’m…some extreme amount…” and then they make a judgment based on not a lot of information. Judging from your stats, your issue is somewhat lack of muscle maintenance.
Loading Vitargo, cheese, gaining weight to decrease your body fat percentage
[0:45:28] “Started using Vitargo 5 days a week drinking it during and after workout. 70g workouts are great.”
Paul: My suggestion to you…I’m having really good luck loading half before the workout. If you wanted to do half before the workout, and then half during, that’s fine. There’s a strong argument for loading about 100g in that window and then loading the rest of the 100g sometime in the evening. What time do you work out during the day Jana?
Paul: So your strategy is right; ignore what I just said. It’s just too hard, unless you’re waking up at 3:00 in the morning. I think what you’re doing is fine. Now, to be clear, you should be loading pretty aggressively the night before though. If you’re working out in the morning getting 70g, you should probably be getting somewhere in the neighborhood of about 130g. One thing that I’m seeing from you with the spreadsheets is that you’re kind of diligent about that. One thing that I would suggest to you, is lighten up a little bit on that one. You sort of know the ballpark that you need to be in, you’re already getting the 70g from Vitargo…There’s no reason to be super obsessive about this now.
A week really does give you a good understanding of what 200g of carbs really looks like. But what I would like to see you do is load 250g of carbohydrates on the days that you’re deadlifting real heavy (as an example) or squatting really heavy…And then maybe come back and have a 150g load on a day where you’re not going as aggressive, or kind of using some of that cardio strategy that I talked about earlier. But basically, play with what you feel works.
She says she’s worried about fat…”I think the carbs I have a handle on. It’s fat. Cheese and avocados.”
Paul: Yeah, I would be concerned more about the cheese than I would the avocados…Well…I guess it sort of depends on how many avocados. Avocados are pretty good fat, and I think that they’re going to convert to some level of energy a lot better than cheese would. Of course…Cheese tastes damn good. I live right next to Wisconsin, so there’s a lot of good cheese around here. I don’t avoid cheese, but it is one of those things that I’m pretty gradual with. I probably have cheese about twice a week or something like that. I just don’t think that it ends up being super favorable.
But I think Jana, for you…You’re pretty active in the group. You’ve come to a couple classes and things like this. So you’re taking it seriously. My concern for you is that you’re taking it too seriously. There needs to be some level of gradual that becomes part of your process. The reality is you just need to probably lose 7 lbs. of fat and then maintain or gain somewhere in the neighborhood of 3-5 lbs. of muscle. So now all of a sudden, we’re looking at a net gain of about 12 lbs. in terms of body fat percentage. It’s not quite 10% but it’s probably more like 7 ½%.
The problem that everyone gets into is that they wanna do kinda like what I did. I went from 32% to 9%. I’ll tell you right now; I’ve said it before and I said it in my post today. I wish I hadn’t gone to 9%. I think it was a mistake. I think that if I would have maintained around 16%, it would have been more favorable as it relates to gaining muscle and things of that nature. I have figured out a lot more stuff in that two year period that’s made a big difference for me.
From your perspective…if for instance, as an example, you got really dedicated to loading that muscle…It’d be really interesting. I think almost Jana, I think you should do a body fat test in a month. I think you’re gonna see major, major positives around that loading Vitargo around your workouts. What you’re going to see is that’s allowing you to maintain your muscle. I suspect that you’ll probably gain 3-5% body fat the way that you want it to go. Even if you maintained your weight, that would give you a feeling that you’re headed in the right direction. I think that’s the problem for a lot of people…They don’t always feel like they’re headed in the right direction. Those occasional tests allow them to mentally get there.
Paul: So anyway, it’s right at 8:00. I’m gonna start mellowing out for bed here. I had a huge accomplishment today so I’m pretty happy about that. I hope that everybody looks at Mike’s video there. Thank you very much Jana, I appreciate that. I don’t think people realize how much this group has changed my life. Sitting there as a 163 lb. man…At some point I realized…I’m only going to get similar things to what I’ve been getting at 163 lbs. I had to look at…”What would 175 get me?”
I think I figured that out. I went from 4 plates to 5. I think I can say that a lot of people don’t do that.
Okay, so we do have one question that’s coming in really late here. I’m really not going to be able to spend a ton of time on this because the class is supposed to end at 8:00. I’ll try and go through it real quick here.
Gradual body recomposition, maintaining muscle
[0:54:15] “Sorry for the late arrival. Haven’t had the chance to fill out the forms yet. Still trying to figure out the forms.”
I’m not sure which forms you’re talking about. I think you’re talking about the spreadsheets…He’s at 24%. “Year ago 27%, do 3-4 WOD’s, mid day/afternoon do heavy WOD’s. Trying to figure out the diet thing now. Any advice on what my fat loss target should be? 7 lbs. for 6 months? Sport-wise, for loading, what would be a good idea for me? Sorry again for being late.”
Paul: Well, I think for you, especially being new…You want to kind of dive into things a little more gradually.
“During WOD’s my metcon sucks most of the time. Trying to figure out the diet thing now.”
Paul: Can you give me some idea of what your diet background is? Maybe that would help. Are you coming from a low carb background or have you kind of been livin’ it up a little bit and you wanna tighten your fat?
“Zone diet stuff.”
Paul: Okay, how long have you been doing Zone and how many blocks?
“About 3 months.”
Paul: And do you have any idea on the calories for your Zone? How does it compare to what you’re seeing from the calculator?
Okay, so you were eating roughly 3000 calories…Or the calculator’s saying 3000? Okay, 3000 is the calculator…What were you eating? Okay…So not that different.
I think that the big difference for you…You might actually be able to make some pretty big gains starting to load more around your workouts and then allowing your insulin to be low the rest of the time. One of the arguments that I make with the Zone…For instance, you could do what we talk about with Metabolic Flexibility with the Zone, but you just have to move your fats and proteins around. Basically, you just take whatever your carb blocks are, move those pre-workout/post-workout, and then the rest of the day kinda do the fats and proteins. Once again, look at Mike’s video. It’ll describe it really well on how you should do that.
Mike is saying I should have…x amount of carbs…He talks specifically about 50g of carbs pre, 50g of carbs post. So people go, “Wait a second. There’s no way that that’s enough carbs for my overall performance level.” Well, that’s not all the carbs you’re going to eat. You’re going to want to have a moderate amount of carbohydrate. The question always becomes, “Is 200 enough?”
The way that I do it, is if I’m lifting heavy, I go super aggressive. I don’t really care about the other days. Those days don’t matter to me near as much, because I’m going to load an okay amount. So for instance, yesterday, between this morning and last night, I probably loaded somewhere in the 3-350 range. Glycogen levels topped off, lifted great, over 500 lbs., PR, super day. Right? I’m not trying to PR my HIIT training as an example. So I don’t need to be that aggressive on that day. So on that day, I might try and get away with a few less carbs, eat a little bit less, kind of allow for a little bit more fat mobilization…
I would say that if you’re in the 24-26% range, there is some level of muscle maintenance that probably needs to happen, but you need to get to that point where you’re getting the needle moving relatively consistent in a slow manner. Let me give you an example of what I mean:
10% body fat gets you down in the 16-14% range. 16-14% is pretty good. Especially if you’re muscular, you’ll start to see some ab definition, things of this nature. So you need to either gain a little bit of mass…Probably not gonna happen all that much. Maybe if you gain 5-6 lbs. of mass over the course of 6 months to a year…So you’re probably going to need to maintain 6 lbs., then lose 16 lbs. So now you go…Okay…”Well, 16 lbs., I need to lose somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 ½ lbs. a month and that will allow for adequate muscle maintenance through that time, and that’s the formula for getting you to 16-14%.”
But that’s a year. The problem that happens for a lot of people is that they struggle to consistently head in the right direction. Let me give you an example, and this will be the last example before we shut it down…
You lose no lbs. on the second month. The first month, you lost 1 ½ lbs., you’re feeling good, workouts are great, you’re loading around your workouts, you’re sort of dialing it in a little bit…Then all of a sudden, you’ve got a wedding to go to, maybe it’s a vacation, weekend with your wife, now lbs. are up. You gain that 1 ½ lb. back. So now, for the next month, you really need to be at 4 ½ lbs.
You’ve gotta try and make sure you’re headed in a certain direction. The problem that a lot of people get into is that when they have some moments of joy, they extend them too long. They don’t have a strategy for dealing with those days. I talked about a strategy this week in one of my posts where I fasted until about 2:00 ‘cause I knew I was gonna have a big calorie day. Worked out great. I was 173 lbs., had a bunch of carbohydrate, woke up at 174. That’s almost as good as you can do it on a day where you’re eating for joy a lot.
When you’re having those moments, you’re just need to make sure that on that third month, you’re gonna have to get a little aggressive. That third month…If the first month you lost 1 ½ lbs., 2nd month you gained it back…That 3rd month, you’ve gotta be at 4 ½ lbs. You’re gonna have to come up with a pretty aggressive strategy at that point. That might not be favorable in terms of maintaining muscle mass, but you’ve got the whole year to play with that. That’s the general strategy about what we talk with.
The one thing that I think that’s nice for everybody here, is that they start to realize that it’s not as hard as they think it is. These extremes that everybody always went to, whether it be extreme low carb, extreme low calorie, or extreme exercise…You know, not allowing for appropriate levels of rest…That all of these things, you’re able to start to manage a little bit better. You know that if you have an aggressive carbohydrate day…That usually works a lot better if you have a heavy lifting day around that. You start to come up with various strategies now that you go “Okay.” I’m seeing a lot of people having success with the gradual approach. They seem to be eating pasta occasionally; no big deal. Everybody has 1-2 things. Some people it’s beer. Some people it’s dessert. Some people it’s eating for joy 2-3x a week rather than 1-2x a week. Once you start to figure out those things, it allows you kind of a dialing it in process.
Anyway, I’m going to start to head to bed here. I appreciate everybody stopping by. Don’t worry about being late; that’s no big deal.